Simple/ compound

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Simple/ compound
Message from mohammad51 posted on 08-04-2021 at 12:36:13 (D | E | F)
Hello
Please if any teacher could help ?
Thank you in advance.

Is it simple sentence or compound ?
The old man got up and walked slowly away.

As much as we have learned the compound sentence is composed of two independent clauses.
The basic contents of any clause is to include S + V
I see the sentence above is simple and ( AND ) is used to join the compound verb.
If we divide as bellow it becomes two full sentences.

I know
The old man got up. The old man walked slowly a way.
I see the only way to make compound is as follow:
The old man got up, and he walked slowly away. ( the second clause : it has S + V )

Anyway, it looks better on its first version.

Re: Simple/ compound from mohammad51, posted on 09-04-2021 at 01:29:23 (D | E)
Hello
I see that my question hasn't been answered yet.
Thank you in advance

Re: Simple/ compound from gerondif, posted on 09-04-2021 at 11:40:48 (D | E)
Hello
For me, and is coordinating two independent sentences, it doesn't matter if the second "he" is omitted.

Re: Simple/ compound from mohammad51, posted on 10-04-2021 at 16:54:44 (D | E)
Dear teacher gerondi
The old man got up and walked slowly away.

got up \ walked are compound verbs

From one book I lastly have read : Writers Inc

A comma may be used between two independent clauses which are joined by
coordinating conjunctions such as these: but, or, nor, for, yet, and, so.
My friend smokes constantly, but he still condemns industry for
its pollution.
Note: Do not confuse a sentence with a compound verb for a compound sentence.
My friend smokes but still condemns industry for its pollution.
(This is a simple sentence with a compound verb; use no comma.)
606 Commas are used to separate individual words, phrases, or clauses in a series.
(A series contains at least three items.)
I used a rapalla, a silver spoon, a nightcrawler harness, and a Swedish pimple.
The bait I used included kernels of corn, minnows, bacon rind, larvae, and spawn sacks.
Note: Do not use commas when the words in a series are connected with or, nor,
or and.
I plan to catch bass or trout or sunfish.
607 Commas are used to enclose an explanatory word or phrase inserted in a sentence.
Spawn, or fish eggs, are tremendous bait.
An appositive, a specific kind of explanatory word or phrase, identifies or renames
a preceding noun or pronoun. (Do not use commas with restrictive appositives.
See the third example below and 611.)
My father, an expert angler, uses spawn to catch brook trout.
The objective, to hook fish, is easier to accomplish with spawn.
The word angleworm applies to an earthworm used for fishing.
---
Again to the simple sentence :
A simple sentence may have a simple subject or a compound subject. It may have a
simple predicate or a compound predicate. But a simple sentence has only one independent
clause, and it has no dependent clauses. A simple sentence may contain one or more
phrases.
My back aches, (simple subject; simple predicate)
My teeth and my eyes hurt, (compound subject; simple predicate)
My hair and my muscles are deteriorating and disappearing, (compound
subject; compound predicate)
I must be getting over the hill, (simple subject: /; simple predicate: must
be getting; phrase: over the hill)
A compound sentence consists of two independent clauses. The clauses must be joined
by a coordinating conjunction, by punctuation, or by both.
Energy is part of youth, but both are quickly spent.
My middle-aged body is sore; my middle-aged face is wrinkled

Re: Simple/ compound from gerondif, posted on 10-04-2021 at 17:21:24 (D | E)
Hello
My definition joins yours, the one you found in your grammar.
A compound sentence consists of two independent clauses. The clauses must be joined by a coordinating conjunction, by punctuation, or by both.
For me, and is coordinating two independent sentences, it doesn't matter if the second "he" is omitted.

I wonder if you are not mixing up compound sentences and compound verbs.
For me," The old man got up and slowly walked away" describes two actions a vertical movement followed by a horizontal one. I could have read :
The old man got up and lit a cigarette.
The old man got up and started talking. The two actions follow each other but I don't see them that related.

The definition of a compound verb seems to me to be slightly different.
Link

Link

Re: Simple/ compound from mohammad51, posted on 10-04-2021 at 17:49:23 (D | E)
Hello
Thank you very much dear teacher gerondif,

I am still confusing because of these books and many views of their authors
You said though ( he ) is omitted ? Perhaps I agree or don't agree
Simply the basic elements of any clause is to have ( S + V ).
Unless a clause ( any clause ) includes ( S + V ) it is not considered a clause.
The compound sentence is composed of two independent clauses are joining by coordinating conjunctions or a semicolon.
On my view, comma is needed before ( and , but ) ?
In this way I get on a grammar.

Here it is from another book : Google books I picked and by using ( OCR ) I printed.
Four authors (( Fusion: Integrated Reading and Writing, Book 2, Book 2
By Dave Kemper, Verne Meyer, John Van Rys, Patrick Sebranek ))
Link

Here

Simple Sentences with Compound Predicates A simple sentence can have a compound predicate (two or more verbs).
► Two Verbs To create a compound predicate, join two verbs using and or or.
One Verb: The band rocked. Two Verbs: The band rocked and danced.
Remember that the predicate includes not just a verb but also words that modify or complete the verb.
One Verb plus Other Words: The band played their hit single. predicate Two Verbs plus Other Words: The band played their hit single and covered other songs. compound predicate
► Three or More Verbs To create a compound predicate with three or more verbs, use a series. Put commas between all the verbs, and place and or or before the last verb.

Re: Simple/ compound from mohammad51, posted on 10-04-2021 at 22:05:38 (D | E)
Hello
dear teacher gerondi

I mean compound predicates ( two predicates )

Perhaps when we say compound verbs It can be understood in another way:
a. Auxiliary + Main verb
b. phrasal verbs

I read on the second link you offered Grammar Monster

I did the exercise here in same page: Link

This is not what I mean
I mean the sentence can be a simple sentence though it contains two predicates or more
Please read on the book of Google
I see it is somehow like a trick
You just separate using a comma + and \ or \ but
I have taken many exercises about sentences include ( and, but , or ) = simple not compound

Re: Simple/ compound from gerondif, posted on 11-04-2021 at 12:50:34 (D | E)
Hello
As I am a bit confused by all these "compounds", I can't really help you more.

Re: Simple/ compound from mohammad51, posted on 13-04-2021 at 00:54:03 (D | E)
Hello
This is from another book I got before an hour ( Modern English in action )

The simple sentence page 250
A.15 SIMPLE SENTENCE (( predicates are all underlined in the book, but I don't know if a feature of underlying is available in this site ?
A simple sentence has one subject and one verb, either or both of which may be compound.

simple subject and simple verb Pew animals | are amphibious.

compound subject Toads and beavers | live on land and in water.

compound verb Beavers | build dams and live in colonies.

compound subject and compound verb Salamanders and frogs | are born in the water but come to land in later life.

----
It is also in this book is mentioned
English as a Communication Skill By Josephine Bauer page 447 :

3. We danced and sang until one o'clock. In sentence 3, there is just one predicate, but it is made up of two components. It is a compound predicate. You may have both a compound subject and a compound predicate and yet have a simple sentence :
Joan and I danced and sang all evening.
It is still a simple sentence because the compound subject (that is, both persons) did what the compound predicate (both predicates) indicates.
Suppose the sentence were Joan sang, and Bob danced. That is a compound sentence.
It has two clauses. She did one thing; he did another thing. If they both had done both things, the sentence would be simple.
When we break it up so that it says that she does one and he another, it becomes compound. There are two separate activities. There are two separate independent clauses.

Re: Simple/ compound from gerondif, posted on 13-04-2021 at 19:11:00 (D | E)
Hello
Thank you for the update.
So, if I understand your grid, your original exemple would be a simple sentence with a compound verb.
I can't really say I'm any the wiser once I know that. I feel like Danny Glover in "Lethal Weapon" when he says : "I'm getting too old for this **** !"

Re: Simple/ compound from mohammad51, posted on 14-04-2021 at 15:57:22 (D | E)
Hello
Thank you very much dear teacher gerondif
I admire you to say " "I'm getting too old for this shit"
You are the best teacher online I see.

I am sure if I ask any teacher who teaches English for higher levels in my country, his or her answer will be a simple sentence.

It is 100 % wrong

Only in the recent days, I have read at least 25 - 40 books superficially or deep reading.

All books which I read confirm the same information as:
The compound sentence structure:
a. two independent clauses are joined together by using a coordinating conjunction.
b. the conjunction should be separated by a comma
c. the second independent clause should include ( S + V )
d. If any of the above mentioned is not applicably used = the sentence is not compound.

I wouldn't like to ask sometimes, however, I see that you are the best friend and teacher online to ask or to discuss with.

Re: Simple/ compound from gerondif, posted on 14-04-2021 at 17:44:58 (D | E)
Hello
There are always better teachers, let's say that they don't come and spend time correcting on this site.

Although I don't feel the need to analyze these sentences, for me :

The old man got up and walked slowly away.
is the same as :
compound verb Beavers | build dams and live in colonies.
3. We danced and sang until one o'clock. In sentence 3, there is just one predicate, but it is made up of two components. It is a compound predicate. You may have both a compound subject and a compound predicate and yet have a simple sentence :

Re: Simple/ compound from mohammad51, posted on 14-04-2021 at 23:15:25 (D | E)
Hello

Is it by chance a message came to me or because I posted many messages online?

Many people got mixed and once I felt that I was suspected in this grammar issue I did a lot of search.

I opened my email and I found the following message sent to me by GrammarBook.com

Compound Predicates

The two main components of English sentences are subjects and predicates. Together, they form clauses.

The complete subject is the main part of the sentence that contains at least one noun (or noun equivalent) and all of its modifiers.

The complete predicate contains at least one verb and its auxiliaries, modifiers, and completing words if they are present. It explains all that is being said about the singular or compound sentence subject.

If you remove the subject and its modifiers from a sentence, everything that remains is the predicate.

Examples
J.J. (complete subject) is an excellent football player (complete predicate).
The lady in red (complete subject) has the envelope (complete predicate).
Always eager to help, Miranda (complete subject) is volunteering at the food drive today (complete predicate).
Josh and Emily (complete subject) will graduate college in two more years (complete predicate).

What Is a Compound Predicate?

A compound predicate is a predicate with two or more verbs or verb phrases connected by a conjunction. It says two or more things about the same singular or compound subject.

Examples
J.J. plays football in the fall and runs track in the spring.
The lady in red has the envelope but does not yet know who will request it from her.
Always eager to help, Miranda is volunteering at the food drive today and assisting with the bake sale tomorrow.
In two more years, Josh and Emily will graduate college, take a short break, and then enroll in a master's program.

Compound predicates can also be formed by simple predicates alone. Simple predicates are the main verbs and their auxiliaries without complements or modifiers.

Examples
J.J. trains and competes.
The lady in red observes and calculates.
Miranda volunteers and assists.
Josh and Emily study and plan.

Compound Predicates vs. Compound Sentences

Compound predicates are different from compound sentences. A compound sentence is made of two more independent clauses. The clauses each have their own subject, and they are separated by a conjunction. They are also typically separated by a comma.

Examples
J.J. plays football in the fall, and his brother plays baseball in the spring.
The lady in red observed the crowd, and the agent waited to approach her.
The food drive takes place today, and the bake sale will happen tomorrow.
Josh studies behavioral science, Emily studies Eastern languages, and they will both enroll in a master's program shortly after graduating college.

How Compound Predicates Are Useful

Compound predicates serve crisper, more-precise writing by replacing wordy, loose, or redundant sentence constructions.

Wordy: J.J. plays football in the fall, and he runs track in the spring, and then in summer he attends athletic camps.
Better with compound predicate: J.J. plays football in the fall, runs track in the spring, and attends athletic camps in summer.

Loose: First the lady in red with the envelope entered the crowd, and then she looked around, and next she waited for the recipient to appear.
Better with compound predicate: The lady in red with the envelope entered the crowd, looked around, and waited for the recipient to appear.

Redundant: Josh will graduate college in two more years. Josh will also take a short break. Josh will enroll in a master's program as well.
Better with compound predicate: In two more years, Josh will graduate college, take a short break, and enroll in a master's program.

Related Articles

Predicating Our Knowledge of Predicates
Simple Predicates
Finding Nouns, Verbs, and Subjects
Dependent and Independent Clauses
Connecting Sentences with Commas and Semicolons

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