Sentence/ correction

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Sentence/ correction
Message from mohammad51 posted on 28-08-2022 at 13:56:14 (D | E | F)
Hello
Please help me solve this sentence correction
Thank you in advance

Mr. and Mrs. Simone have had food made for Katy’s party last year.

Of course, it is not correct using ( have had ) + a reference point past.

If not it is causative, either simple past or past perfect ... ( the simple past is more possible)

Regardless to what I mentioned, it is causative indeed.

Solution :

Mr. and Mrs. Simone had food made for Katy’s party last year. ( remove have ) = have \ had something done

But I am suspected with it, because I think, the family had Katy’s party make the food.

So, my second answer ( I convert as have someone do something )

Mr. and Mrs. Simone had Katy’s party make food for last year. ( but here the problem stands with the preposition for)

For making ? I see it is not acceptable in causative structure

Re: Sentence/ correction from chezmoi, posted on 28-08-2022 at 20:39:18 (D | E)
Hello,

I am English and not a teacher but let's have a go at answering your concern and question
1) Mr and Mrs Simone have had food made for Katy’s party last year.
= Someone has made food for Katy's party last year after having been instructed by Mr and Mrs Simone.
OR Mr and Mrs Simone have eaten food made for Katy's party last year
OR Last year, Mr and Mrs Simone had food made for Katy's party.

"have" is not needed but the meanings above always apply in my opinion
Note
to have had = to Have consumed, to have eaten, to have drink.

He has had a nice cup of tea. = He has drunk a nice cup of tea.
Etc

Re: Sentence/ correction from gerondif, posted on 31-08-2022 at 18:00:11 (D | E)
Hello
Mr. and Mrs. Simone had food made for Katy’s party last year. is correct. They had somebody make food for that party, they used the services of a caterer or something.
If you pronounce in one single group "had food made", we will understand that it is a causative pattern.
But if you stop after food, we could understand that it means "ate food" which was made for Katy's birthday. The sentence would sound bizarre because incomplete, missing some explanations.

But I have doubts about this sentence because I think, the family had Katy’s party make the food. Well, in that case, you would say exactly that : Simone had Katy's party make the food.

Mr. and Mrs. Simone had Katy’s party make food ~~for~~ last year. They asked the group to prepare the food. You don't need a "for"

Re: Sentence/ correction from mohammad51, posted on 05-09-2022 at 09:55:36 (D | E)
Hello
Thank you both teachers chezmoi and gerondif for replying and explaining

I agree with you dear teacher gerondif to comment
But I have doubts about this sentence because I think, the family had Katy’s party make the food...

I also have doubt with, and for this reason, I came and posted

I know it is correct 100% to say : Mr. and Mrs. Simone had food made for Katy’s party last year.

But that doubt thinking ( the family have those people of Katy’s make the food ), lastly I abandoned this idea.

Then what would you say if is (( had had food made )) ? Is it acceptable in English?

Re: Sentence/ correction from gerondif, posted on 05-09-2022 at 12:16:34 (D | E)
Hello
It seems to me you see problems where there are none.
When a structure exists, it can usually be used with all tenses.

If they decide to take part in the expenses, they will have food made for Katy's birthday.
If they decided to take part in the expenses, they would have food made for Katy's birthday.
If they had decided to take part in the expenses, they would have had food made for Katy's birthday.

Whenever they decide to take part in the expenses, they have food made for Katy's birthday.
When they decided to take part in the expenses, they had food made for Katy's birthday.
As they had decided to take part in the expenses, they had had food made for Katy's birthday.
Before we could say a word about it, they had already had food made for Katy's birthday.

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